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	<title>Comments on: The Ukrainian World According to Kudelia (and CERES)</title>
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		<title>By: habika</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2010/01/29/the-ukrainian-world-according-to-kudelia-and-ceres/comment-page-1/#comment-20526</link>
		<dc:creator>habika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 15:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Five years that could have and should have Eben spent building institutions and trust ion government. Five years that achieved nothing, even the so call “democratic” advancement has not happened. All Yushchenko achieved was to deepen the division and betrayed all those that placed faith in change. In doing so he has set back Ukraine’s democratic and economic development ten to fifteen years. 
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&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shareadeals.net&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Share Deals&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Five years that could have and should have Eben spent building institutions and trust ion government. Five years that achieved nothing, even the so call “democratic” advancement has not happened. All Yushchenko achieved was to deepen the division and betrayed all those that placed faith in change. In doing so he has set back Ukraine’s democratic and economic development ten to fifteen years.<br />
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<a href="http://www.shareadeals.net" rel="nofollow">Share Deals</a></p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2010/01/29/the-ukrainian-world-according-to-kudelia-and-ceres/comment-page-1/#comment-20397</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2010/01/29/the-ukrainian-world-according-to-kudelia-and-ceres/#comment-20397</guid>
		<description>You just don&#039;t get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You just don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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		<title>By: UkrToday</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2010/01/29/the-ukrainian-world-according-to-kudelia-and-ceres/comment-page-1/#comment-20395</link>
		<dc:creator>UkrToday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 08:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>LOL.  

Estonia, latvia, Hungary, moldova., Greece, Switzerland, Czech Republic a host of other states all elect the head of state by a Constitutional majority of their respective Parliaments.  Even the United States of America does not directly elect its head of state. 

A two-thirds majority of the Parliament is much harder to achieve then a simple majority of the people directly electing their head of state. A two-thirds majority of the parliament is not an easy task to secure. Anyone who has their support would more democratically represent a greater number of people.

Cost $0  effectiveness and accountability much more...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL.  </p>
<p>Estonia, latvia, Hungary, moldova., Greece, Switzerland, Czech Republic a host of other states all elect the head of state by a Constitutional majority of their respective Parliaments.  Even the United States of America does not directly elect its head of state. </p>
<p>A two-thirds majority of the Parliament is much harder to achieve then a simple majority of the people directly electing their head of state. A two-thirds majority of the parliament is not an easy task to secure. Anyone who has their support would more democratically represent a greater number of people.</p>
<p>Cost $0  effectiveness and accountability much more&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2010/01/29/the-ukrainian-world-according-to-kudelia-and-ceres/comment-page-1/#comment-20393</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Only in the mind of a particular spammer does the notion of taking the vote away from the people, and giving it to a group of legally unaccountable oligarchs seem more &quot;democratic&quot; than a direct plebicite... It&#039;s absured on its face. Upwards of 80% of Ukrainians prefer a strong president who is directly elected by the people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only in the mind of a particular spammer does the notion of taking the vote away from the people, and giving it to a group of legally unaccountable oligarchs seem more &#8220;democratic&#8221; than a direct plebicite&#8230; It&#8217;s absured on its face. Upwards of 80% of Ukrainians prefer a strong president who is directly elected by the people.</p>
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		<title>By: elmer</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2010/01/29/the-ukrainian-world-according-to-kudelia-and-ceres/comment-page-1/#comment-20377</link>
		<dc:creator>elmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2010/01/29/the-ukrainian-world-according-to-kudelia-and-ceres/#comment-20377</guid>
		<description>I disagree that Yushchenko&#039;s 5 years were a total waste.  They were a waste, yes, but not total.

First - in 2004, Ukraine had Kuchmism - the Orange Revolution broke that, in part, through Yushchenko&#039;s bravery and the support of a majority of the people.

Second - early in his administration, Yushchenko tried to initiate a &quot;round table.&quot;  So, rather than clans of oligarchs and their henchmen killing each other, Kuchma style, and killing journalists to boot, elected governmental officials from all sides could come and talk and try to work out difference.  It was a baby step in getting to full democracy.  Today, people get together on the Savik Shuster show from different political sides, and engage in discussion - public discussion, with the very important participation of very capable journalists - who have a sharp eye, very good minds, and are not easily fooled.  That&#039;s not the only indication of how things have changed.

However, Yushchenko&#039;s attempt to get into a &quot;universal agreement&quot; with the Party of Regions was a fatal mistake - he was getting in cahoots with the very Kuchmist bandits against whom he ran.

If he wanted to implement reforms, he could have put specific ones on the table, and put public pressure on Parliament to implement them.  He had the support of the public.  Instead - the psychotic battle between him and Tymo got in the way.

Third - if anything, this year&#039;s election, which to use Tammy Lynch&#039;s phrase, was forged by dissapointment, clearly pointed out the price of failing to keep promises - Yushchenko, who concentrated far too much on a psychotic battle with Tymoshenko (she did her part too), was soundly kicked in the behind.  Yabookyvych and the puppet masters who control him (Pinchuk, Akhmetov, Kolesnikov, Azarov, etc) should take note.

Fourth - Tymoshenko should have learned a very hard lesson - as Abraham Lincoln said, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can&#039;t fool all of the people all of the time.  Her appalling attempt to claim that there are no oligarchs in her bloc and that she is not subject to any oligarchs is beyond belief - it is atrocious. If she had been more honest, I believe she would have gotten more votes.

Fifth - if there is anything that these elections revealed, it is this - Ukraine has been the victim of a horrible, horrible stealing, drinking and robbing corruption binge by a &quot;select&quot; few people.  A few people robbed the entire country through privatization deals and through abuse of government to the point where there is almost nothing left to steal.

Corruption, which has been talked about for years, is massively prevalent.  The rights of ordinary citizens - well, that&#039;s too trifling for the &quot;political elite&quot; to worry about - except for pensions, of course, which are a pittance.

So the people had the freedom to finally wake up - and fully realize - whom do we elect, a bandit or a self-obsessed publicity queen who goes after everyone else&#039;s corruption, but not her own bloc&#039;s?

Not much of a choice.

And, after about 19 years, especially after the constitutional changes in 2006 - not much of a system.

And Julia found this out the hard way - imagine going in front of an election commission which is politically appointed, and not independent.

Imagine going in front of a court which has 49 goddamn politically appionted sycophant judges!!!!!!!! to decide election questions - with no public TV coverage. When Gore challenged the election against George Bush, it was in front of an elected judge, subject to TV coverage, and subject to appellate review by the Florida Supreme Court, and by the US Supreme Court - neither of which had 49 goddamn &quot;judges&quot; on it.

Welcome to what the rest of Ukraine experiences, Yulka.  Crooked courts and no rights for ordinary citizens.

In Ukraine, the game still continues to be electing a different set of thugs in a crooked system.

The task ought to be 1)setting goals for reform and 2) implementing those goals.

One doesn&#039;t need to change the Cabinet to do that.  One merely needs all of the oligarchs to stop playing the &quot;war of all against all&quot;, and to stop playing the &quot;Not Invented Here, So We&#039;ll Reject It&quot; games.

One doesn&#039;t need to remove the Prime Minister - only some civil cooperation.

Yanukovych gave a very nice inauguration speech. The problem in Ukraine is that those speeches have been given year after year after year after year after year.

So that it&#039;s come to the point that people view Yanukovych&#039;s speech as just a bunch of lies, given for the benefit of continuing an oligarchic system.

And it amounts to &quot;my oligarchs and I are better for Ukraine than you and your oligarchs.&quot;

Which, of course, is utter cow manure, horse hockey and nonsense.

It reminds me of my favorite poster of all time - a naked man with a huge scowl on his face is holding a pile of brown shit in one hand, and a pile of black shit in the other.

The caption underneath reads - &quot;tired of the same old shit?  Try ours.&quot;

That&#039;s Ukraine - unless people get rid of the oligarch system, and unless the &quot;political elite&quot; start cooperating - finally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that Yushchenko&#8217;s 5 years were a total waste.  They were a waste, yes, but not total.</p>
<p>First &#8211; in 2004, Ukraine had Kuchmism &#8211; the Orange Revolution broke that, in part, through Yushchenko&#8217;s bravery and the support of a majority of the people.</p>
<p>Second &#8211; early in his administration, Yushchenko tried to initiate a &#8220;round table.&#8221;  So, rather than clans of oligarchs and their henchmen killing each other, Kuchma style, and killing journalists to boot, elected governmental officials from all sides could come and talk and try to work out difference.  It was a baby step in getting to full democracy.  Today, people get together on the Savik Shuster show from different political sides, and engage in discussion &#8211; public discussion, with the very important participation of very capable journalists &#8211; who have a sharp eye, very good minds, and are not easily fooled.  That&#8217;s not the only indication of how things have changed.</p>
<p>However, Yushchenko&#8217;s attempt to get into a &#8220;universal agreement&#8221; with the Party of Regions was a fatal mistake &#8211; he was getting in cahoots with the very Kuchmist bandits against whom he ran.</p>
<p>If he wanted to implement reforms, he could have put specific ones on the table, and put public pressure on Parliament to implement them.  He had the support of the public.  Instead &#8211; the psychotic battle between him and Tymo got in the way.</p>
<p>Third &#8211; if anything, this year&#8217;s election, which to use Tammy Lynch&#8217;s phrase, was forged by dissapointment, clearly pointed out the price of failing to keep promises &#8211; Yushchenko, who concentrated far too much on a psychotic battle with Tymoshenko (she did her part too), was soundly kicked in the behind.  Yabookyvych and the puppet masters who control him (Pinchuk, Akhmetov, Kolesnikov, Azarov, etc) should take note.</p>
<p>Fourth &#8211; Tymoshenko should have learned a very hard lesson &#8211; as Abraham Lincoln said, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can&#8217;t fool all of the people all of the time.  Her appalling attempt to claim that there are no oligarchs in her bloc and that she is not subject to any oligarchs is beyond belief &#8211; it is atrocious. If she had been more honest, I believe she would have gotten more votes.</p>
<p>Fifth &#8211; if there is anything that these elections revealed, it is this &#8211; Ukraine has been the victim of a horrible, horrible stealing, drinking and robbing corruption binge by a &#8220;select&#8221; few people.  A few people robbed the entire country through privatization deals and through abuse of government to the point where there is almost nothing left to steal.</p>
<p>Corruption, which has been talked about for years, is massively prevalent.  The rights of ordinary citizens &#8211; well, that&#8217;s too trifling for the &#8220;political elite&#8221; to worry about &#8211; except for pensions, of course, which are a pittance.</p>
<p>So the people had the freedom to finally wake up &#8211; and fully realize &#8211; whom do we elect, a bandit or a self-obsessed publicity queen who goes after everyone else&#8217;s corruption, but not her own bloc&#8217;s?</p>
<p>Not much of a choice.</p>
<p>And, after about 19 years, especially after the constitutional changes in 2006 &#8211; not much of a system.</p>
<p>And Julia found this out the hard way &#8211; imagine going in front of an election commission which is politically appointed, and not independent.</p>
<p>Imagine going in front of a court which has 49 goddamn politically appionted sycophant judges!!!!!!!! to decide election questions &#8211; with no public TV coverage. When Gore challenged the election against George Bush, it was in front of an elected judge, subject to TV coverage, and subject to appellate review by the Florida Supreme Court, and by the US Supreme Court &#8211; neither of which had 49 goddamn &#8220;judges&#8221; on it.</p>
<p>Welcome to what the rest of Ukraine experiences, Yulka.  Crooked courts and no rights for ordinary citizens.</p>
<p>In Ukraine, the game still continues to be electing a different set of thugs in a crooked system.</p>
<p>The task ought to be 1)setting goals for reform and 2) implementing those goals.</p>
<p>One doesn&#8217;t need to change the Cabinet to do that.  One merely needs all of the oligarchs to stop playing the &#8220;war of all against all&#8221;, and to stop playing the &#8220;Not Invented Here, So We&#8217;ll Reject It&#8221; games.</p>
<p>One doesn&#8217;t need to remove the Prime Minister &#8211; only some civil cooperation.</p>
<p>Yanukovych gave a very nice inauguration speech. The problem in Ukraine is that those speeches have been given year after year after year after year after year.</p>
<p>So that it&#8217;s come to the point that people view Yanukovych&#8217;s speech as just a bunch of lies, given for the benefit of continuing an oligarchic system.</p>
<p>And it amounts to &#8220;my oligarchs and I are better for Ukraine than you and your oligarchs.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which, of course, is utter cow manure, horse hockey and nonsense.</p>
<p>It reminds me of my favorite poster of all time &#8211; a naked man with a huge scowl on his face is holding a pile of brown shit in one hand, and a pile of black shit in the other.</p>
<p>The caption underneath reads &#8211; &#8220;tired of the same old shit?  Try ours.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s Ukraine &#8211; unless people get rid of the oligarch system, and unless the &#8220;political elite&#8221; start cooperating &#8211; finally.</p>
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