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	<title>Comments on: Approaching the Orange Anniversary: Part 1</title>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Ukraine: Taras Kuzio on Yushchenko</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2008/11/12/approaching-the-orange-anniversary-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-18924</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Ukraine: Taras Kuzio on Yushchenko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 03:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.taraskuzio.net/?p=199#comment-18924</guid>
		<description>[...] achievements and failures and unfulfilled expectations of the last four years&#8221; in Ukraine - here and here, and also writes that president Yushchenko &#8220;had over-focused on the issue [of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] achievements and failures and unfulfilled expectations of the last four years&#8221; in Ukraine &#8211; here and here, and also writes that president Yushchenko &#8220;had over-focused on the issue [of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: elmer</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2008/11/12/approaching-the-orange-anniversary-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-18874</link>
		<dc:creator>elmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 15:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.taraskuzio.net/?p=199#comment-18874</guid>
		<description>What else did McCain and Obama and the people in the US NOT have to face?

- well, in Ukraine, noone knew where the campaign money came from.  They still don&#039;t, except for the people spending it.  That meant that government money and resources were used to finance the campaign of the incumbent party in power.

- McCain and Obama had to file campaign finance reports, and there are limits on individual and corporate amounts of contributions.  No such limits in Ukraine.

- Obama raised most of his campaign contributions over the Internet, with an average contribution of $99.  McCain opted for public campaign finance money, limiting him to about $74 million.  No such luck in Ukraine.

- People in Ukraine were bused by the Party of Regions to Kyiv to &quot;counteract&quot; the Orange Revolution.  As employees or government workers, they were literally forced on buses, with no food and no toilets, but with bottles of vodka.  There are stories that some of them cried when they go to Kyiv, because they had nowhere to go.  Many of them were helped by the Orange camp.

- Many people in Ukraine were literally bused, or put on trains, to &quot;vote early and vote often,&quot; in various districts.

HUGE difference between what McCain and Obama went through, and what the people in Ukraine went through.

There was a far larger percentage of voter participation in Ukraine than in the US.

That&#039;s why the majority obtained by Yushchenko was so significant.

He, and his supporters, the people who came from all over Ukraine to freeze in Kyiv in December and stare the government in the face and say &quot;enough&quot;, faced enormous obstacles from the incumbent insiders - rigged voting, beatings, big money, and worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What else did McCain and Obama and the people in the US NOT have to face?</p>
<p>- well, in Ukraine, noone knew where the campaign money came from.  They still don&#8217;t, except for the people spending it.  That meant that government money and resources were used to finance the campaign of the incumbent party in power.</p>
<p>- McCain and Obama had to file campaign finance reports, and there are limits on individual and corporate amounts of contributions.  No such limits in Ukraine.</p>
<p>- Obama raised most of his campaign contributions over the Internet, with an average contribution of $99.  McCain opted for public campaign finance money, limiting him to about $74 million.  No such luck in Ukraine.</p>
<p>- People in Ukraine were bused by the Party of Regions to Kyiv to &#8220;counteract&#8221; the Orange Revolution.  As employees or government workers, they were literally forced on buses, with no food and no toilets, but with bottles of vodka.  There are stories that some of them cried when they go to Kyiv, because they had nowhere to go.  Many of them were helped by the Orange camp.</p>
<p>- Many people in Ukraine were literally bused, or put on trains, to &#8220;vote early and vote often,&#8221; in various districts.</p>
<p>HUGE difference between what McCain and Obama went through, and what the people in Ukraine went through.</p>
<p>There was a far larger percentage of voter participation in Ukraine than in the US.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why the majority obtained by Yushchenko was so significant.</p>
<p>He, and his supporters, the people who came from all over Ukraine to freeze in Kyiv in December and stare the government in the face and say &#8220;enough&#8221;, faced enormous obstacles from the incumbent insiders &#8211; rigged voting, beatings, big money, and worse.</p>
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		<title>By: elmer</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2008/11/12/approaching-the-orange-anniversary-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-18873</link>
		<dc:creator>elmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.taraskuzio.net/?p=199#comment-18873</guid>
		<description>With all due respect, I think it would be a good idea to review at least some of what people were facing in the Orange Revolution with respect to elections.  After all, Kuchma looked at the 80% vote margin that happened in Georgia prior to the Rose Revolution, and said that he wanted to make sure that in Ukraine, his anointed successor candidates did not appear to be so &quot;greedy&quot; so as not to arouse suspicion.

So here are some samples - and people were afraid to talk about it, and did not talk about it.  The saying was:  &quot;my house is on the edge, I know nothing.&quot;  Just like Sergeant Schultz in the old comedy series, &quot;Hogan&#039;s Heroes.&quot;  Sgt. Schultz was the one who always used to say &quot;I know nothing.&quot;

- ballots - with disappearing ink.  You would fill in a ballot, but later the ink would disappear, and somehow people would fill in the &quot;appropriate&quot; vote.  

- members of the military were instructed how to vote.

- people were beaten if they didn&#039;t vote the right way - or lost their jobs.  Their votes were monitored.

- it was legal to deliver ballots to invalids and hospital patients.  If you didn&#039;t vote the &quot;right way,&quot; it was made plain that you would be thrown out of the hospital.

- the journalists had &quot;temnyky,&quot; or theme lists.  These were approved topics that they could talk about, but only in a certain way.  Everything else in the media was forbidden.  One of the key moments in the Orange Revolution was a brave announcement on TV by a female journalist that she would no longer follow the theme lists.

Just a sample.

McCain and Obama did not have to deal with that, and the people in the US did not have to deal with that.

So, yes, the Orange Revolution was very, very important for Ukraine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect, I think it would be a good idea to review at least some of what people were facing in the Orange Revolution with respect to elections.  After all, Kuchma looked at the 80% vote margin that happened in Georgia prior to the Rose Revolution, and said that he wanted to make sure that in Ukraine, his anointed successor candidates did not appear to be so &#8220;greedy&#8221; so as not to arouse suspicion.</p>
<p>So here are some samples &#8211; and people were afraid to talk about it, and did not talk about it.  The saying was:  &#8220;my house is on the edge, I know nothing.&#8221;  Just like Sergeant Schultz in the old comedy series, &#8220;Hogan&#8217;s Heroes.&#8221;  Sgt. Schultz was the one who always used to say &#8220;I know nothing.&#8221;</p>
<p>- ballots &#8211; with disappearing ink.  You would fill in a ballot, but later the ink would disappear, and somehow people would fill in the &#8220;appropriate&#8221; vote.  </p>
<p>- members of the military were instructed how to vote.</p>
<p>- people were beaten if they didn&#8217;t vote the right way &#8211; or lost their jobs.  Their votes were monitored.</p>
<p>- it was legal to deliver ballots to invalids and hospital patients.  If you didn&#8217;t vote the &#8220;right way,&#8221; it was made plain that you would be thrown out of the hospital.</p>
<p>- the journalists had &#8220;temnyky,&#8221; or theme lists.  These were approved topics that they could talk about, but only in a certain way.  Everything else in the media was forbidden.  One of the key moments in the Orange Revolution was a brave announcement on TV by a female journalist that she would no longer follow the theme lists.</p>
<p>Just a sample.</p>
<p>McCain and Obama did not have to deal with that, and the people in the US did not have to deal with that.</p>
<p>So, yes, the Orange Revolution was very, very important for Ukraine.</p>
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		<title>By: elmer</title>
		<link>http://blog.taraskuzio.net/2008/11/12/approaching-the-orange-anniversary-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-18871</link>
		<dc:creator>elmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.taraskuzio.net/?p=199#comment-18871</guid>
		<description>The analogy to McCain and Obama does not quite hold. The contrast is much greater than what you note, I think.

In Ukraine, it was very dramatic and traumatic in 2004.  In the US election, people did not have to take to the streets to overturn a false election, not this year, and not even when Gore contested the election against Bush.  In the US, while there might be slight policy differences expressed between McCain and Obama, they were nowhere near as great as Yushchenko promising to put bandits in jail, to fight for free, open, fair and honest elections, to end corruption, and to end the autocratic style rule of Kuchma.  McCain and Obama both know and respect the national interests of the US - Yushchenko had to fight against the open intervention of the Kremlin, as you well know, Professor Kuzio.

In other words, Yushchenko&#039;s mandate was given to him not only by the vote, but by people OF ALL AGES coming out onto the streets and literally almost having to fight the armed forces and militia, to elect Yushchenko.

He blew it - big time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The analogy to McCain and Obama does not quite hold. The contrast is much greater than what you note, I think.</p>
<p>In Ukraine, it was very dramatic and traumatic in 2004.  In the US election, people did not have to take to the streets to overturn a false election, not this year, and not even when Gore contested the election against Bush.  In the US, while there might be slight policy differences expressed between McCain and Obama, they were nowhere near as great as Yushchenko promising to put bandits in jail, to fight for free, open, fair and honest elections, to end corruption, and to end the autocratic style rule of Kuchma.  McCain and Obama both know and respect the national interests of the US &#8211; Yushchenko had to fight against the open intervention of the Kremlin, as you well know, Professor Kuzio.</p>
<p>In other words, Yushchenko&#8217;s mandate was given to him not only by the vote, but by people OF ALL AGES coming out onto the streets and literally almost having to fight the armed forces and militia, to elect Yushchenko.</p>
<p>He blew it &#8211; big time.</p>
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