1. NATO is the first step on the path to EU membership

This is a very false and misleading statement. Yes Ukraine should have the opportunity to join the EU BUT NO membership is not a prerequisite and is not the first step toward EU membership. Ukraine should remain independent and continue to work towards EU integration. NATO is very much a outdated organization dominated by the perceived interests of the United States who use NATO as an alternative to the United Nations. It would be i Europe’s interest if hit formed a security organization that was truly European free from USA and Canadian influence. NATO, if anything, has destabilized world security and placed a threat on Europe. The fact that the USA has unilaterally sought to install missile basis i Europe without NATO’s consent demonstrates the level of contempt the USA has for the alliance. Imagine the USA’s response if a foreign country negotiation to install a missile base in say Cuba.

Then there is the specious argument that the MAP is not membership. It’s a bit like saying that a person who participated i a terrorist training camp is not a terrorist.

The USA gave a undertaking that it would not expand NATO into former Eastern European countries. A undertaking that it clearly has breached. Of course NATO expansion and the role played by the USA is seen as a threat to Russia, i the same way that the USA saw the establishment of a millissime base in Cuba in the 1960’s as a threat to its security. America appears to very much be seeking to re-unite a cold war.

Russia has made valid points in relation to NATO’s involvement in Kosovo ad the precedent that has now been set for separatist regions seeking greater autonomy.

Ukraine is better off remaining outside teh formal membership of the NATO alliance. It can play a much more strategic role as an independent state without generating a perceived threat ad instability of the region. If Ukraine continues to pursue the policy of NATO membership without the express will of its people there is a real risk that the situation in the region will only intensify and become more unstable as Russia reacts to defend its national interests. and of course if it provokes a response form Russia the USA will be quick to deflect criticism and claim that it is an aggressive Russia seeking expansion whilst ignoring its role of aggression and world domiation.

NATO must not be allowed to usurp the authority or role of the United Nations.

dlw

It seems to me that Ukrainians here feel that relations with Russia should be more pragmatic and joining NATO, which is, after all, a military organization will only antagonize those relations. The, if only indirect, involvement of NATO in Iraq, a questionable war, so it seems according to some, and the desire to place of missiles in nearby Eastern European countries doesn’t help the image of the West and its military organization – opinions from Moscow aren’t readily dismissed here. It seems that Ukrainians know their history well and in the past conflicts with Russia usually occurred on Ukrainian soil, suffered by Ukrainians far more than in Russia by Russians. And, considering the continuing problems in Afghanistan and Iraq, which was under UN sanctions before the start of the war, what would occur in the case of a conflict with a more formidable adversary, and what if it becomes nuclear, who will suffer the most? More diplomacy and less military would help, so it seems.

Curious how Ukrainians see a distinction between joining NATO and joining EU, although such division isn’t appreciated so much in the West, and how the western media saw a divide between eastern and western Ukraine during the Orange Revolution, whereas it seems to me most Ukrainians, with whom I spoke, didn’t see such a clear-cut division, despite whatever cultural and linguistic differences there actually are.

When you write that “NATO membership would assist in reforming, modernising and democratising Ukraine’s silovi struktury” you are speaking of its military power structure, aren’t you? Would we want an outside organization to impose its will on Ukrainian organizations? However rudimentary it was, but nonetheless in a real way Ukraine had one of the first democratic organizations in the modern world in the their Zaporizhian Sich, thought by some, and I feel it reflects in the everyday culture of the average Ukrainian.

The capital-ambitious, power-hungry oligarchs is what many feel is the problem here whatever their ties may be with their nearby countries. If you would substitute corporation for oligarch in the last sentence, what some believe are Ukraine’s problems aren’t really much difference from those in the US, I feel.

NATO membership may, indeed, be a step to joining the EU, but – given Romania, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Malta, Sweden and Finland – it can’t be said to be a necessary one.

Are you suggesting that the Balitc States are no longer concerned about Russia, or that Russia was quite exercised about their joining NATO?

Furthermore, I’m not sure of the extent to which NATO membership encourages reform in the siloviki of the member states, as there have been serious problems with those of Poland and Latvia.